Speaker 1: 0:54

Hello and welcome to SEO is not that hard. I'm your host, ed Dawson, the founder of the SEO intelligence platform, keywordfupoleasercom, where we help you discover the questions people ask online and learn how to optimize your content for traffic and authority. I've been in SEO and online marketing for over 20 years and I'm here to share the wealth of knowledge, hints and tips I've amassed over that time. Hello and welcome back to SEO is not that hard. It's me here, ed Dawson, hosting, as always, and on today's episode I'm joined by David Pesarek. He's a design and programming expert who's been smashing the nonprofit sector for 30 years. He's taught at college level and he's found his passion for sharing knowledge while helping his clients transform their digital presence. So, as the founder of Wow Digital Inc, david and his team have completed over 225 projects in the last five years, bridging the gaps between IT, marketing, communications and fundraising to streamline operations and drive digital success, particularly for non-profits.

Speaker 1: 1:47

So today we're diving into something SEOs often overlook, and that's design, aesthetics and usability. So first impressions matters. And usability. So first impressions matters. And you know, david is going to tell us in a bit how users decide, in just over 0.05 seconds, whether they trust a website. So that's real first impressions, and we'll cover how design impacts conversions, where accessibility is crucial for both SEO and user experience, and how to create high converting landing pages. Plus, we'll discuss mobile first design and the role of ai in web design and the biggest mistakes to avoid.

Speaker 1: 2:18

So if you want a website that not only ranks but actually works for your users, then this episode is for you. So, hi, david, thanks for coming along to the show and I'm really keen to get information from you all around kind of design, aesthetics, usability, accessibility, that kind of thing, because it's a. It's an area where lots of people in SEO get very focused on technicalities, on content, but they don't always think about how you know science, look to people, how content looks, what's the important thing. So I'm really keen to get you know sort of drill into the knowledge you've got around this, and I suppose the first thing I want to ask you is what should we be thinking about when we're trying to make first impressions? Because first impressions count, for obviously people will come to a site they're going to learn. How do we make a good first impression on people design wise?

Speaker 2: 3:09

David Pérez Thank you so much for the uh the welcome Ed. Hi everybody. That's uh. That's listening and tuning in. That's uh, that's listening and tuning in um. There's a stat uh by uh sweer um that says it takes 0.05 of a second for our brains to form an opinion about what they're looking at. So you go to a website within 0.05 of a second, you know whether it's uh what you're looking for, you know whether it's trustworthy uh, and you know whether it kind of feels right, like the, the visceral gut reaction that you have to it Uh, and there's a number of factors that come into that. I've been in the game uh for a very long time. We got dial up internet in the early nineties a very long time.

Speaker 2: 3:57

We got dial-up internet in the early 90s and I kind of went on the asia's road, uh, and I just went okay, this is kind of cool, and I just started like playing with it and like the first sites I built were with notepad, uh, in windows, like raw, just html, uh. So I've seen a lot of shift over the last. Oh my God, what is it now? Maybe 30, 32, 33 years of web? I've been working professionally in web since the early 2000s. I started working full-time in 2000. So I've seen all the trends and fads.

Speaker 2: 4:44

If your website doesn't work on a mobile device, that's a big problem. If you're looking at your analytics, you need to. You need to take a look at your. If you don't have analytics, go get Google analytics. It's free. I would bet that anywhere between 30 to 40% uh, what your website is for will be getting traffic from mobile. So open up the website.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Do like your own kind of like self audit. Take a look at other businesses or organizations in your niche. What are they doing? What do they look like compared to yours, right? So the first thing you want to look at is what do people see when they land on your site? But what pages are they landing on? Usually only about 30 to 40%, maybe 50 if people are familiar with your brand, like your company name, your organization name, they'll land on your homepage.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Google wants to send people deep into your website. It used to be that Google would send people to your homepage and then they had to navigate to get, and the rule was like three clicks, right. You should always be able to get wherever you want within three clicks, and that's where like drop down menus and all that kind of came from, because it was fewer clicks for people. But Google over the last decade probably a bit longer than that, now that I'm thinking about it wants to send people to the content they're actually looking for, right? So most websites it's usually like five to eight pages that get the most traffic. So what?

Speaker 1: 6:12

do people?

Speaker 2: 6:13

see when they land on those pages. Sorry, Ed, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 6:15

A lot of the 80-20 year old 80-20 rule, 80-20 topic probably comes from 20% of your pages.

Speaker 2: 6:21

I would say maybe more like 5% of your pages, depending on the size of your site, right, but yeah, that's pretty much what it is. So what are they actually seeing when they land there, right? So for your homepage, for example, you don't want to talk about and I met with a client last week, or prospect, actually last week, who their website, when you went to their homepage, talked all about what they do. Right, it's not really engaging, right? You want to frame things in a way that makes people understand what you do, but that it's for them, right? So if it was like a dentist's website or maybe not a dentist's website, yeah, sure, we'll go with the dentist's website, right?

Speaker 2: 7:12

Maybe they're a pediatric dentist. Maybe they're a pediatric dentist, right, we've helped, I don't know, 2,700 children over the last 10 years with their teeth. Okay, not bad, pretty compelling. But we will help you with your children's dental needs, or, instead of, we will helping you with your children's dental needs really engages them more and creates an empathetic hit with them. Subconsciously, that will make them go. Oh, okay, like I'm interested, I want to find out more.

Speaker 1: 7:51

So that's more about making it about the customer rather than about yourself. So put your customer first there, rather than yeah, so it's all about how we can help you, how you can be helped by us, rather than oh, this is yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, so it's getting that messaging across in the first instance yeah, right, so that's part of it.

Speaker 2: 8:15

The other part of it is what does the website actually look like, right? Um, we've done an audit of somewhere close to about 500 uh websites over the last three years or so and uh websites look old and dated. So, for example, maybe the website was built 10, 15 years ago and you just kind of left it there and you didn't really do much with it. That's a problem, because your competition is staying up to date with modern design, look and feel. Also, color palettes, right, that changes every year. I think Pantone comes out with a color of the year every year. I think the one for this year is actually really kind of gross of the year every year. I think the one for this year is actually really kind of gross looking, but I have no say in that whatsoever. But you know, staying up to date and I'm not saying you need to rebrand your organization year after year after year but you can introduce tertiary colors into it you can. If there's a big trend where you have a black and white photo and all of your photos are color, right, you can apply some style sheet to that to change it to uh, to black and white, or you can reshoot. Maybe there's a specific style of of photo or angle or things like that you're into, like architecture, for example, right. So I think, um, staying up to date with the look and feel is important. Staying up to date with the current trends is important, um, but also knowing your audience. So, uh, I worked at a hospital that was focused on geriatric care very different audience than where I came from before that, which was a university. Right, I worked at a college and university, you're you're hitting like younger ages for the people. So you need to be maybe a little bit more trendy or you need to be in. Maybe you need an app, because that's the right thing for your business, based on the persona that you're trying to connect with. And that's kind of like the next piece of this, which is identifying who your audience is and I know this is like a little bit off topic, but super related yeah, it works, it definitely works.

Speaker 2: 10:35

You need to know who your primary, secondary audiences are, and maybe you have two or three primary audiences. That's okay, but what motivates them? Yeah, what drives them? What is going to make them want to buy from you, get your research from you, interact with you in some kind of way, shape or fashion Ideally to get their email address, their coveted golden email address, right. Your research from you interact with you in some kind of way, shape or fashion ideally to get their email address, their coveted golden email address, right so that you can market to them or you can fill them with information, with insight. If you're a nonprofit we work a lot with nonprofits what the impact is that you're having? What are those points that are going to really resonate with them that will get them to keep you top of mind and to comfort, come, come to you for whatever it is that you do yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:27

So it's all about appearing for the right people, the right message and with the right kind of I guess what, what tone is right with it? It's the tone of the look, the tone of the sound, um, that meets. So, yes, I can imagine like, yeah, if you're working for a geriatric hospital, people are looking for geriatric hospitals are going to be of a much older age. Um, then people look at universities, but I suppose in the middle you've probably got parents and children, like, obviously, the children, the older people, are the parents of the younger people. There's also an audience. They're like your secondary audience. You've got to hit in that.

Speaker 1: 12:02

So you've got to try and make sure you get the right yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's a really interesting way of thinking to start about it. So if you've got that now we've got that, look, we know who, who we're talking to we're obviously coming on to that kind of user usability, user experience kind of thing. So what are the key things you guys think about when it comes to user experience, especially things to maybe to avoid? Are there any kind of like red flags? User experience wise, you've gotten. What would you say, are the key points you've got to look for when it comes to that kind of UX point.

Speaker 2: 12:41

Yeah, so an interesting. I've got two stats for you kind of around this, and it really comes back to the use of mobile devices here, which is Data Reportal. They did a survey and 96.5% of internet users are using their phone in some kind of way, right. In some kind of way, right. Think of sitting on the couch, you're watching a movie, or you're watching a show or a sporting event or whatever it is, and you've got your phone beside you and it dings. You get that dopamine hit, you pick it up, you use it for something, or you're playing games on it, right? So we've all got these devices, for better or for worse, at our side a lot Data Reportal.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Also in I think it was the same report said that 58% of global website traffic is from mobile devices. They've been with us for a couple of years and their website was designed for sideways scrolling on desktop. We're like what? No, nobody is swiping on desktop right on mobile. Sure, it's really easy to flick with with your thumb on mobile. It was the inverse on mobile. You had to swipe up and down and it was like this is this.

Speaker 2: 14:06

This is a really weird interface, so we we just like rebuilt everything for them. Uh, there's an occasional slider with a sideways, but everything is just regular up and down. Uh, because that is what people are used to when they're browsing a website. As soon as you start introducing a different way of interacting, it becomes maybe confusing, but hard and difficult to use. Yeah, right, um, so follow, follow the trends of the big businesses, like what is amazon doing online, what is microsoft doing online, apple, etc. Etc. Um, and follow suit, because they're the ones they're spending billions of dollars on research, making sure that what they're doing is optimized for user experience, because Apple doesn't want people to have a hard time using their product. They actually pride themselves on making amazingly uh, easy to use systems, platforms, devices.

Speaker 1: 15:09

So I did piggybacking on their research. They put in, so they spent all this money researching. If they're doing it that way, it's for a reason. It's because they know it works. So it's like follow the design patterns that these big companies are using when it comes to designing your UX. Implement things that way companies are using when it comes to designing your UX. Implement things like this Don't do anything novel unless you've got a really good reason to, and you can test it and back it up, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 15:33

But I suppose for most people who won't have the resources to be doing that kind of thing, it's like yeah, don't try and do something that goes against the grain. Yeah, I know that's really, really cool and mobile first. So you would always go mobile first for design. So if you were going to a designer, would you be wanting to essentially say let's mobile first first, and then we'll think about how it will look for the desktop? Because I think, having worked with so many designers over the years, it always seems to have been desktops first and getting them out of that mindset, I think has been a bit tricky.

Speaker 1: 16:08

So go mobile first with design. Think about the desktops they've got. I mean, there probably are some exceptions to that, I know. For example, we have a SaaS tool and we get 90% of people on that are coming on the desktop because they're people working, they're researching on that. So there's always exceptions to every rule, isn't there? Doesn't it depend? We've got other sites which are consumer focused, and then 90% plus mobile, um and and yeah, the desktop's just a complete afterthought, you know.

Speaker 2: 16:39

So yeah, it's just so I suppose again that again it's learning.

Speaker 1: 16:42

we're going back to checking out where your audience is coming from and what those personas are. Okay, cool. Obviously we're an SEO podcast. So there's because I've over the many, many, I'd say 20-odd years of SEO work with designers. At times I've had to say to them we can't do that. Or well, not that we can't, obviously we can. They've never designed something we can't build, but sometimes it's the case. We have to say to them yeah, we could build that or you could do that, but it would have negative effects SEO-wise because of the way Google crawls. I know it gets better nowadays and this has changed over time. I mean, I remember way back in the day there was lots of Flash. In the day there was lots of flash Everything. Designers at one point in the early 2000s wanted to do everything in flash and that was death. But unfortunately flash is long dead. Um, but what? What nowadays are the kind of design choices that you want to avoid that could negatively impact your SEO.

Speaker 2: 17:42

David Pérez yeah, there's. There's a lot, uh, uh, I guess, to unpack with that and um, what I, what I want to kind of talk about with the whole seo conversation is um, there's a number of factors that that affect your ranking right. So you've got the speed of your website right, your, your first, uh, oh, what is it? What do they call it? Something with uh I forget the actual words but with cls and like first paint and all that type of stuff, so that that will affect your, your rating. So there are some technical things that need to be done, uh, to the websites that you're working on or you're building. Uh, to help with that. A lot of times it comes down to an underpowered server or a server with like thousands of sites on it, so you can't dedicate the resources to it. Uh, so make it making sure you've got a powerful enough backend. Uh, so that's that's the first thing I want to mention there.

Speaker 2: 18:38

The second thing I want to mention is around accessibility. Um, inherently and it's kind of interesting but if you make your websites more accessible, they tend to rank higher than websites that aren't, because you can do some kind of like white hat seo kind of tricks in the site. So one of the big culprits that we've seen with our clients is alt text on images, right. So if anybody doesn't know what accessibility is, not everybody can see, right. There's blind users out there that use the web. They don't typically use a mouse for browsing. Right, they'll use keyboards. They'll use screen reader software. There's one person actually that joined my webinar about a year ago who had like a braille uh output device wow we're like it would.

Speaker 2: 19:33

It would just take it and turn it into braille and like, oh, that that's, that's really kind of cool.

Speaker 2: 19:38

Um, I'm super geeky, so like I found that cool. But, uh, you know if, if you have an image on the page, you need to have alt text so that the screen reader software, the braille software, will read it out to the person so they know the context of the image, as opposed to it being like the file name, like IMG, underscore nine, seven, five dot JPEG. That's useless for anybody. But if you can insert the keywords that you want to be found by into the alt tags, where it actually works organically. You don't want to just like keyword jam, uh, uh, the alt text or the long description or anything like that on images, um, but inherently, uh, google is using the alt text, uh, for images show up in image results but also will help with page results. So you know, that's kind of one of those little, I guess, tricks that you can use there. But yeah, in terms of SEO, I don't know, ed, if I've touched on answering what it was that you were asking about.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah, well, I mean, that was definitely something to do. Like, yeah, yeah, do use alt text, yeah, yeah. And like I say, yeah, the accessibility making. I know we've done this in the past on sites. You have to make sure that you can navigate using the keyboard, because, yeah, that's another aspect. The keyboard, um, because, yes, that's that's another set of people use the mouse, these keyboard commands, people who, who you know, maybe, uh, you know they can't even use a keyboard, but they, they have the, the eye movement recognition software. You essentially navigate around with keyboards. That's really important.

Speaker 1: 21:18

I just really have to potentially any things, um, kind of red flags that people have done on sites nowadays where the design might look nice for design but it has had a negative effect on SEO. Is there anything there? If not, I know Google is getting smarter than it used to because it renders pages now where it didn't used to. It used to all be about the HTML. Now they'll render it and the JavaScript is used. I know it's becoming more flexible, but I wonder if there's, and then your JavaScript you suppose to choose on that issue is becoming more flexible. But I want to do this in any red flags that you could think of.

Speaker 2: 21:53

You want to make sure you've got, like, the proper headings in place, as as they need to. Uh, for accessibility, they need to kind of ladder from like H1, h2, h3, you can't go H1 to H3. Uh, the headings are important for uh, important for SEO, because it gives context for it. I find that you know, from an SEO perspective, a lot of organizations are not in businesses that they don't have like a blog on their website. Right, google is actually ranking sites higher One if they're mobile friendly, because they're sending more. More people are using mobile, so they write Okay, uh, I think I've talked enough about the importance of mobile.

Speaker 2: 22:34

But, um, if you are consistently and frequently adding content to your website, so think of a blog and they don't have to be big. We're talking like five, 600 words. If you can do it weekly, that would be ideal. If you could do it a couple times a week, great. If you can only do it once a month, I would say that's kind of like the minimum. But Google wants to see that you're adding content and you're updating content on your website on a regular, consistent, frequent basis, even if it's just rewording a sentence on your home page or two sentences, so you have the same context.

Speaker 2: 23:09

You can use ai for for that. You can take it, put it in, go, reword this. Give me five options. Pick the one you like, put it in right, tweak it a little bit, um, but for blogs, ai, I would say, would give you maybe 70 of the way there. You still need to spend the time humanizing it. Um, because google, they've got gemini, they've got other things in the back end. I'm sure they're they're very tight-lipped on what is in their algorithm and what isn't. But I'm sure, uh, I've seen articles that talk about, um, uh, how google is de-indexing pages that it determines were created by AI.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:50

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:52

AI is definitely an interesting one still and it's still. It's very. It changes a lot in terms of what does work and doesn't work, how. It's an interesting topic, actually, ai have have. Have you seen what's used of AI when it comes to generating designs? You know, like before obviously before a few years ago like you have to go through human design what's the landscape when it comes to AI and creating designs and modifying and generating designs, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 24:25

I think it's very, very far from good. I would say it's really, really, really poor. We've been using AI at my agency, probably close to about four years now, and we've been using it for brainstorming, for troubleshooting, for developing some code for spreadsheet formulas, formulas for content development, all kinds of stuff, and we did try it for design work. What we found is there's I'm not going to name names, but there are some websites that you can go to and we'll create a AI-based social media graphic for you every day. We'll give you 10, we'll give you whatever it is. We tried it a few times. They are all templates. The only thing it does is it changes the color, changes the copy that goes in, but it's basically the exact same graphic.

Speaker 2: 25:24

We've tried some of the webpage generators. They're mediocre. They don't output what I would think would be something that I can sell to somebody, or even something that I would build a landing page for somebody for free, or something. It's not good enough quality, yet what you can use it for is to do research. So, hey, we're building a landing page for X. We can go back to the dentist, right? We want to build a landing page for a dental clinic for a new patient promotion, cool. You can use AI to research what should be on that page, come back with a list of 10 urls of other dental clinics that have that type of thing, uh, and then have it. You know, create an initial draft of what should be in the header, what should be in the about, are there faqs, etc. Etc. But to put that all together. I haven't found a way to do that yet. That could come next week, that could come in five years from now.

Speaker 1: 26:37

Yeah, yeah, I think it's not fun, like we use it for lots of things, but when it comes to front facing stuff, the content, the that kind of thing, it's not there yet. I mean, that's not to say it won't be, because things have changed a lot in the couple of years since Church EPT came out, but yes, it's not there. So it's interesting that you concur on that. One thing you just touched on there was obviously landing pages, and obviously the core purpose of most websites are to convert people. There's a business goal behind a website. So this is a key thing where I think design is really important, because persuading people to take the action that you want them to take and which will benefit them. What's your approach to building landing pages? The kind of calls to action, the lead magnets and that kind of thing what works well for people?

Speaker 2: 27:32

Yeah, I have a little bit of a framework and way that people should think about calls to action. So the first thing is you want to make it very obvious what the call to action is. It needs to look like a button. There's stats that I can give you around. You know why that's important and how much more traction that you would get with that. Like CTAs that look like buttons, that look clickable will increase the click-through rate by 45%, right? So, as opposed to just having like a blob of text and you've got a word in there that's linked right, make it look visual um and the uh. The way to do that is if you complete this sentence. So I want to blank, right. I want to buy a new pair of shoes. The call to action would be buy a new pair of shoes. The call to action would be buy a new pair of shoes, right? So that's kind of the first thing to think about is what is it that you want people to do? And then what is the wording that will get them to do that?

Speaker 2: 28:39

Unfortunately, people don't really want to think when they're looking online. Maybe that's like the start of the demise of humanity, I don't know, but we don't have to get there, obviously in this podcast, but people, people don't want to think. Make it easy for them to take. Whatever that next step is, you don't want to repeat the same call to action through the page. It can take you to the same thing. It could be like a Calendly booking form or it could be a checkout, it could be a whatever um reword. It have it different throughout the page because people are at different points in their life cycle journey with you, right, and they might not be ready to book a consult, but they might be ready to sign up for a newsletter, for information, or they might be willing to read an article, um article or something like that.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Okay, so earlier in the episode I was talking about the talk about your audience, not about you. So you want to have something there. You want to have a call to action. You want to talk about the uh, the benefits of X, y and Z. You want to talk about, maybe, the process of what it is that you do, how you do it, why you do it Right, and then continue those call to actions. Okay, cool.

Speaker 1: 29:54

So you mentioned that, like the different people on different things at different times, so would that be like a? It's almost like a conversion ladder. So if people are coming at different points in the funnel, the first people you want them to get, you want them to read an article, and then further along, you might want them to sign up for you might offer them some tips. Like I have an SEO tips called back from my website, so that's where people don't necessarily want to get in touch for a strategy session or something like that. They can. Oh well, I'm interested in the tips, and then they'll read the tips and then, because they come back later, they go. I was just going to think is it like creating a sort of a conversion ladder? So right, I've heard someone once say it's like when, when you first meet this prospective partner, you don't immediately ask them to marry you. Yeah, you're. Basically, you start off small and you work your way up, basically over over a period of time.

Speaker 1: 30:47

So is it's like thinking in terms of yes who your prospective customers are, where you want them to get to eventually, and some might get to different levels and just work out that level rather than being wham. The only thing after is this big, super expensive package, and that's all I'm going to tell you. You're going to offer people different things with different costs and values along the way.

Speaker 2: 31:12

That's where it's important to understand your ideal customer and the persona that you're trying to interact with. Right Is what? What do they want at that point in their journey, right? So, if it's like a lot of websites, websites like these are our latest blog articles that we have right, when they're on that right, have an option for them to subscribe, to get it into their email instead of having to come back to your website. I think there's a lot of opportunity to market and remarket and connect with people in a more meaningful way than just like by now.

Speaker 1: 31:53

And, um, yeah, no, that's really, that's really cool and I mean that's been absolutely fantastic. I mean the way that there's the process here we're going from understanding at the start what people are, giving them a good user experience, making sure that we don't go into silly SEO wise, getting that accessibility in there, which is good for SEO but also great for people who have disabilities, who have impairments that they can't work with and then thinking about how we get people from first contact to being the customer client. Whatever action we're hoping to take, because there's a real process, is really really key to it. That's really fantastic. So, thanks so much for that. We obviously we've we've only managed to cover so much in this period of time. If people looking for more help on this is there anything you know they could come to you to find more help, tips, advice, that kind of thing. Where can they go with you?

Speaker 2: 32:47

David Pérez yeah, thank, where can they go with you? Yeah, thank you so much, ed. So, um, I I actually do practice what I preach, uh. So the best way, the easiest way to get us is, if you're looking for insight, if you're looking for tips, head over to wow digitalcom. Uh, you'll see right there the messaging that we talk about. We work primarily with non-profits and charities. We do work with some select agencies, some select businesses and consultants as well. So come check it out. At the end of the day, like the work that we do, it doesn't really matter the sector. So we're just like focused on the nonprofits because we love helping and that's kind of like our goal here. But, yeah, wowdigitalcom, you can check out all the content there. You can book a free consult with me, uh as well. If you'd like an audit of your website, we do uh, free audits, um, and the link for that is wowdigitalcom slash audit. Pretty straightforward and uh and easy. Um, come book a consult, happy to you know, chat with you and connect. David Elikwu Brilliant.

Speaker 1: 33:50

Thanks so much. Well, I'll make sure that all those links go in the show notes so the people, if they didn't catch anything, just go look at the show notes. They'll all be there. And then, yeah, all the things these may say is yeah, thanks, quinn and David, it's been brilliant and thanks very much.

Speaker 2: 34:03

David Elikwu my pleasure and, as I always kind of say at the end, keep on being successful.

Speaker 1: 34:08

You have very, yeah, good advice. Thanks very much, my pleasure.

Speaker 1: 34:15

Well, I hope you found that as fascinating as I did. I think I learned quite a lot there and there's a lot to cover, a lot to think about when it comes to design, aesthetics, usability and SEO. We mustn't forget it is something really important to sort of keep top of mind when we're making any decisions what we do with our website. So, yeah, yeah, really great that David came on and yeah, that was fantastic. Now I'm looking for reviews. If anyone's got reviews, want to give us feedback, you can now go to ratethispodcastcom slash SEO, which is a real quick link that will help you find the right place to leave a review of the podcast we're always trying to find. Get more reviews, boost of visibility, get to more people, and the more people we can help, the better. So that's ratethispodcastcom slash seo. Also, that's in the show notes. Yeah, and now, until next time, just keep optimizing, stay curious and remember seo is not that hard when you understand the basics. Thanks for listening. It means a lot to me.

Speaker 1: 35:08

This is where I get to remind you where you can connect with me and my SEO tools and services. You can find links to all the links I mention here in the show notes. Just remember, with all these places where I use my name, that Ed is spelled with two Ds. You can find me on LinkedIn and Blue Sky. Just search for Ed Dawson on both.

Speaker 1: 35:23

You can record a voice question to get answered on the podcast the link is in the show notes. You can try our seo intelligence platform keywords people use at keywords people usecom, where we can help you discover the questions and keywords people are asking online. Post those questions and keywords into related groups so you know what content you need to build topical authority and finally, connect your google search console account for your sites so we can crawl and understand your actual content, find what keywords you rank for and then help you optimize and continually refine your content and targeted, personalized advice to keep your traffic growing. If you're interested in learning more about me personally or looking for dedicated consulting advice, then visit wwweddawsoncom. Bye for now and see you in the next episode of SEO is Not that Hard.